Eighteen thousand hours. A conversation with Jonathan Blow

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Published 2022-05-19
We welcome Jonathan Blow back to The No-Frauds Club to discuss Braid, The Witness, his game design philosophy, and how it all dovetails with the modern state of art and culture.

Follow Jonathan: twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow

Clubhouse Conversations playlist:    • Clubhouse Conversations  
Spotify link: open.spotify.com/show/5DDTJZytcZYfoizAj1LKNw

0:00:00 The return of Jonathan Blow
0:00:11 When games are "about something" and Jonathan's upcoming game
0:05:16 How games can set themselves apart from films and books
0:16:39 On the motivations of writers in the games industry
0:23:51 What if we never get to the better thing? And Elden Ring
0:41:55 Understanding what's good, by accident or otherwise
0:53:39 Braid, and another angle on what the story could be
1:01:32 Balancing ideas and execution, and how they intertwine
1:07:51 Clarifying quantity vs quality, and the importance of one component
1:16:21 When feature creep affects the player
1:26:13 Being critical of games, and responding to critique
1:46:57 The merits of the critic, and "art reviews" vs "product reviews"
1:58:29 Seeking alternatives, and the homogenization of media
2:15:07 The reputation of being "elitist"
2:24:41 The Witness, one of Jonathan and Darion's favorite puzzles
2:57:20 As a designer, comprehending the player's experience
3:07:03 Closing thoughts and a bit of an attaboy

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#Podcast #Braid #TheWitness #JonathanBlow #Indie

All Comments (21)
  • I've spent eighteen thousand hours watching jblow clips and interviews, so I'm basically a genius now.
  • @MoonSafariFilms
    I really appreciate that you gave Blow the space and time to speak.
  • @dandymcgee
    I really liked this interview more than some of the older ones because I felt like you asked great questions without rambling on for quite as long. I think you still stack a lot of questions together in a way that makes Jon struggle to figure out which one to answer, but it sort of works out because you're both on the same wavelength and he gets the overarching idea you're presenting and tries to answer it as a whole. This is a really fun show to watch so far and I'm looking forward to seeing where you take it.
  • what a deep thinker. this is one of the best interviews at blow articulating his awesome thoughts on game design and storytelling. much appreciated
  • @TheNoFraudsClub
    Jonathan Blow's second appearance here gave us lots of food for thought - not the least of which was at 2:59:50 where he discussed the difference between a difficult puzzle and an interesting one, and why he prefers the latter. If you missed Jonathan's first round, you can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rck9tiLoo8U We'll see him again soon!
  • @TankorSmash
    Just like the first conversation with Blow, you asked great questions and got great answers. Thank you for improving your craft. Looking forward to the next one. It's hard to distill questions down because as long as the questions were, I'd still want to hear more of the rest of the unanswered parts too. Thanks for uploading!
  • @doctormombo8146
    I have to say, your conversations are fantastic. You have great guests and you ask engaging questions. I'm really impressed.
  • @Fachewachewa
    I loved that you could just spend half an hour talking about one set of puzzles (and that you asked this specific question)
  • I personally love Batman Arkham(s), mainly because I like the satisfying reaction time combat, but the Riddler trophies to me genuinely explore the mechanics of the game to the point of "completeness" and "orthogonality" the way that Jon Blow describes in older talks. I have 100%ed all three games multiple times, and most trophies do have a new idea, or a slight variation on another trophy, and by the end you feel like you have seen everything that can be done with the gadgets in the game. It isn't Witness quality, but Arkham Knight in particular is genuinely my favourite AAA game for completing 100%.
  • @wisnoskij
    This is like the best Blow interview ever done!
  • @ofdoom3
    Great conversation, glad to have Jonathan Blow back again sharing his views. I think the discussion on elites is somewhat sidetracked from the bigger issue that many game designers are including terrible elements into their games on purpose. This isn't due to a lack of skill or ability but that their goal isn't to make a work or art but rather a money making entertainment product. This seems to cause more problems in games than in other media, movies don't interrupt action scenes to show stats levelling up and books don't have loot boxes. These systems are being inserted to provide a semblance of progress at steady pace to keep the player hooked on the game but unfortunately have the effect by breaking up the gameplay and making the experience worse (assuming the game was fun in the first place). Keep making great games and don't worry too much about all the studios making stuff that will soon be forgotten.
  • @user-mp5ir3wc9e
    That was a great talk. Very deep thoughts from both. Thank you
  • I'm really grateful for this talk. It was incredibly interesting and inspiring.
  • @Ushterek
    Can't wait for round 3. Great channel, so many good interviews!