Summarizing Romance sound shifts

2024-05-01に共有
Links:
Germanic sound shifts:    • Summarizing Germanic sound shifts  
Emperor Tigerstar’s map of Ancient Rome every year:    • The History of the Romans: Every Year  
Xidnaf’s video with the dialect continuum example (What even is a language?):    • What Even Is a Language?  
Swedish language overview:    • Language Overview: Swedish  
K Klein’s video about Italian sounding like Swedish:    • Italian Sounds A Bit Like Swedish (An...  


Translations:
0:54: (Latin) I am your father.
7:06: (Spanish) Well now I am not doing it.
9:11: (Proto-Slavic) Can I offer you a nice sound in this trying time?
19:44: (Italian) A part of him lives within me, doesn’t it?

コメント (21)
  • It's so nice youtubers remembering Catalan exists and latin languages aren't just Spanish French and Italian lmao
  • 19:36 the reason that the Italian word is scudo instead of the expected *scuto is because it's not directly inherited, rather it was borrowed from a North Italian language which actually had the t to d change, there are several words like that in Italian (spiga < spica, riva < ripa) that did the same voicing, where the borrowed words displaced the native inherited ones
  • @tonuka6257
    I love how your visualization of the expansion of Rome is just you slowly stretching a jpg image
  • Having done research on a bunch of Romance languages for a certain upcoming video, I wanted to chime in that Sardinian also does the /kʷ/ /gʷ/ > /p/ /b/ sound shift.
  • Quick thing on the "ego" part: in italian "io" retains the latin stress, being ['i.o] not ['jo]
  • @enelabe
    Some tiny remarks about Catalan: 6:14 Catalan's "standard" pronunciation of the "l" is still [ɫ] even if it is gradually getting lost because of Spanish influence! 8:15 Some dialects of Catalan (predominantly in Mallorca but also some dialects in València) also keep the [v] sound.
  • No way no way no way. I'm more excited that this video dropped than how excited I've been for blockbusters coming to cinemas
  • That’s the separatist flag of Catalonia. That’s not the flag of Catalonia… it’s like 🟨🟥🟨🟥🟨
  • @francinze
    Italian viewer here, loved the content. About the shift from the "TI+vowel" pattern, you correctly mentioned that your example "stationem", is a loanword. It was almost literally picked out of the latin dictionary by modern humanists in the Renaissance. Due to the fashion of the time, they left the latin word almost identical and only 'italianized' the ending ('stationem' to 'stazione'), and they adopted the 'z' following the ecclesiastical pronunciation of Latin, which was the one used by the Church at the time (BTW this pronunciation is proven to have no historical connection to Classical OR Vulgar Latin whatsoever). We call this set of words taken from latin on a later stage, 'vocaboli dotti' (cultured words). But there is another child of the latin 'TI', the one that followed the live development of phonology throughout the middle ages. In italian at least, this evolved into 'GI-'. Some examples are: - rationem ("motive, cause") --> ragione ("reason") - stationem ("resting place, stop") --> stagione ("season") As you can see, the two different evolutions also made it to English, through the Normans and the French ('saison' and 'raison' in our case). So if you wonder whether 'desk' and 'disk' are related, yes they come from the exact same word.
  • Important to note that there are many italo dalmatian languages, not just the one. While they're often called dialetti in italy, they are generally understood to be languages of their own right with large differences between them resulting in a large lack of intelligibility. In standard Italian /s/ and /z/ are written with the same letter, but there are minimal pairs if we consider sounds across multiple words, and many many if we consider near minimal pairs, where the difference is not conditional on the environment around the consonant. The problem is that due to the influence of regional languages of italy, s and z lost phonemic distinction in most of Italy. Distinction is preserved in florence, the origin of standard italian.
  • @carmi7042
    About the qua gua/ pa ba shift in Romanian happens in Sardinian too. Infact "Language" is Limba like in Romanian
  • 6:03 just a note on the Romanian „oară”, this means "time" in the usage of e.g. "5 times"/"the only time" (although it's not used for "once / one time"). While it's definitely still descended from the same latin root, there's also the word „oră”, meaning "hour", which might make for a better comparison imo. Also at 9:53, „făină” is 3 syllables: [fə'inə], in the same stress pattern as the rest of the languages. Finally, while your pronunciation of „eu” as [jo] is a valid pronunciation and very common in quick speech, „eu” is commonly pronounced on a spectrum [jo~jow~jəw~jew]. There are also speakers that, due to hypercorrection, don't preiotate words like various conjugations of „a fi” (e.g. ești, este, e, eram, erai, etc.) or the pronouns (e.g. ea, el, or indeed eu) so they pronounce it [ew], exactly as written. Basically there's a bunch of ways to pronounce it, including the one you chose. Otherwise great video, it was very interesting and the pronunciation was far better than I've come to expect from online videos not made by native speakers. I fully expected to notice a bunch more mistakes but there really was just the one, the stress on „făină”, which is understandable because the spelling is ambiguous. „Faină”, for example, has the stress pattern you gave despite being spelled very similar. Admittedly that's a loanword from English "fine", but there's also „haină” which also has the same stress.
  • Great video, as always, but it's a bit too fast to comprehensibly follow. I'd make bigger stops between the sections to separate them a bit.
  • This is a great video but could I recommend that in the future you read the words from the descendant languages in the same order each time? I kept getting confused and having to rewatch those portions of the videos if, for instance, I wanted to focus on how Portuguese changed.
  • @davidl2684
    Little correction at 7:50, Romanian leu is most likely an older borrowing from Latin, since a directly inherited work would have given *ieu , as it happened with iepure ("rabbit", < Lat. leporem ). The fact that Romanian has both a lot of inherited words AND neologisms from Latin has given rise to many doublets. For instance, Lat. monumentum has been borrowed as Ro. monument , but inherited as Ro. mormânt ("grave"). It's really interesting. Also, /h/ exists in Romanian words of Latin origin, but has developed from /v/ or /f/. For example, the verb a se holba from Lat. volvere_, or _hier_, regional variant of _fier ("iron"). Great job with the video and pronunciation otherwise, I'm happy to have just stumbled upon your channel. :)
  • To avoid consonant clusters starting with s at the beginning of a word, following the preposition "in", some words in Italian used to get an "i" before them. For instance: "spalla" (shoulder), "in ispalla" (on the shoulders); "strada" (road), "in istrada" (on the road); "scherzo" (joke/prank), "per ischerzo" (as a joke). You can find these expressions in books from just 60 years ago, but now they've completely disappeared, with the exception of "scritto" (writ); "per iscritto" (written/on paper).
  • WELL, ACTUALLY Catalan's classification is still debated, some put it into Iberian Romance, others into Gallo Romance and again others group it together with Occitan into Occitan Romance which acts as a bridge between the former two. Then again others put the whole group of Occitan Romance into either Iberian or Gallo Romance, but I personally prefer the bridge solution because it seems to be the most neutral one. Also, what most linguists are sure about iirc is that Occitan is Catalan's closest relative
  • A few things about Portuguese: 1. Ungeminated intervocalic n and l regularly is lost in Portuguese, with n producing nasalization which can then develop in a number of ways including being lost entirely (though this happened in the transition from Medieval Galician-Portuguese to Modern Portuguese and was very easily deciphered in medieval scripts) 2. As a consequence of the previous rule, geminated nn and ll then took on the simple ungeminated form replacing the originals which were now lost 3. Both of those rules only apply if there was no palatalization earlier, i.e. they were not followed by a j 4. Initial gl- is rare in inherited Portuguese words but does develop into l- as seen in glārea > leira, and globellum > lovelo > novelo (this last part is a consequence of dissimilation but lovelo is an attested older form) Plus in general: Most of Latin -tiō (-tiōnem) is generally borrowed differently in Romance languages than their inherited forms, while rare, these inherited developments can be seen in words like satiōnem and ratiōnem for intervocalic development and factiōnem satiōnem Pt: sazão Sp: sazón Ct: saó Fr: saison Unattested in It. or Ro. ratiōnem (many of these languages may also have a borrowed doublet) Pt: razão (borrowed: ração) Sp: razón (borrowed: ración) Ct: raó (borrowed: ració) Fr: raison (borrowed: ration) It: ragione (borrowed: razione) Unattested in Ro. factiōnem Pt: feição (borrowed: facção) Ct: faiçó (borrowed: facció) Fr: façon (borrowed: faction) Unattested inherited form in Sp., It. or Ro.
  • @aroma13
    Some Things about romanian: The dark l sound actually became a w in between vowels, lets take words stea(star),zi(day) and cățea(she-dog), they evolved from latin stella,diella, and catella respectively, but they have archaic and or regional prononciations like steauă, cățeauă and ziuă, which explains their definite forms, also aromanian has these archaisims as the normal forms, mainly steaua/stiau,cătsauă/cătsau and dzua. Also the f-h change of spanish happened in romanian on a dialectal level aswell, in my dialect of romanian, f becomes h before i and e, so fier becomes hier,fiu becomes hiu, and so on, but unlike spanish, the h is still pronounced