Can The Taken King Take on the Ruinous Powers of Chaos in Warhammer 40k?

Some clarity, I’ve seen many people correct me on where Oryx’s power to take came from which is correct it comes from the Winnower not the Witness. A couple of the sources I use for a lot of Destiny lore are not caught up with the current state of the universe and when I was looking into it the answer of where his powers came from were a lot more nebulous so I went with the Witness. I doubt I’ll ever get things 100% right, glad to see the corrections though it’s incredibly useful. I guess it’s time to start watching Byf 😂.

"I have sustained my life in the gardens of Pestilence, and thus I have proved myself greater then Nurgle" "I have remained a constant in the mazes of Change, and thus I have proved myself greater then Tzeentch" "I have once again proved my sword is sharper, and in all things war proved myself greater then Khorne" "My desires are beyond Excessive, my ideal final shape cuts through Slaanesh like a knife" "and thus my final shape is made manifest, Aiat, and I have become the self sharpening knife who carved away existence"

Funny lore event Random hive fleet needs a planet to make base out of. Decides to fight catachan. About a few months later. A wizard writes that the planet itself knows sword logic.

The more Oryx takes, the less chaotic the universe becomes. If unable to beat the chaos gods, the Taken King would surely weaken all of them over time.

The Witness didn't come up with or give Oryx the ability to Take. The Witness learned it first but they didn't teach Oryx. A lot of enemies you "kill" that are taken are actually just re-whisked into whatever dimension they're sent to, hence their weird slurped animation on death for some of them. Chaos vs the Taken vs the Vex would probably look like the D&D Blood War lol

Considering rhulk caused an entire nuclear war between a species on a planet from just his shinanigans, and can wipe out an entire fireteam in a second if he wanted too, he should be put in the 40k verse.

“The sweet nectar of Slaanesh was poison in my veins I excised it on my knife and tore its excess out least it become a blight.” “The death that Nurgle promised was lost in my throne and it’s life was cancerous as the sky, I devoured its pox as I do my tribute.” “The lies of Tzeentch were small and torn by my will, I could not be lost in its maze for am I not the first navigator the one who probed the deep for truth.” “I shattered the eightfold axe of Khorne on my blade, it knew only of blood and slaughter but refused the truth of the universe, that it had to prove it’s worth not simply kill for killings sake.” “I am the Navigator, The first, The King of shapes, I destroy these lies by cutting open the truth and making them lies to be told, they cannot escape the logic of the all knifed truth, their shape cannot break my knife, AIAT!!”

Mmm, I'm on Team Destiny here, but I do have a complaint. The entire point of the sword logic is that there are no exceptions--I don't see why it wouldn't apply to undead creatures. The Hive do consider necromancy heretical (as death is just the removal of things that, by way of dying, proved they don't have the right to exist, and so undoing death is spitting on the sword logic), not that that stopped Nokris. The sword logic is the Hive interpretation of the "final shape" concept, which seems a bit closer to the ideas the Winnower originally represented than what the Witness settled on. If you're keeping up with the D2 lore, read the lore tab for the ship Nacre. For the rest of you: the Gardener and Winnower created many universes, which all ended in the same pattern, which the Winnower thought was cool but the Gardener kinda hated. The Gardener proposed some rule changes to increase complexity and maybe create a new outcome, the Winnower got mad, they had a big fight, the universe as we know it was born. (It's unclear how much of this is true and how much is parable.) The pattern the Winnower loved so much is, approximately, self-centeredness--take what you need, betray others if it's convenient, etc. From the sword logic's perspective, the very idea of something existing outside its own rules is a nonstarter. And that is also, perhaps, its biggest flaw: when we kill Oryx in the raid, it is a result of cooperation between equals (he is not a soloable encounter; I think exploits may have previously existed to allow it, not clear on that, but that wouldn't be canon anyway). We leave the much-vaunted "power to Take" on the floor, metaphorically speaking, rather than accept his power for ourselves. And I don't know a whole lot about 40k, just bits and pieces by osmosis, but it's not clear to me who could win in such a fashion from that side. Oryx got that power in the first place by kililng his sisters (thus sword-logicking himself the powers of both War and Cunning--the comparison between Xivu Arath and Khorne is an interesting one I won't get into, btw), then killing Akka, Worm God of Secrets to get the ability to commune with the Deep, then did so. This led to an offscreen conversation with someone--either the Witness or Winnower, it's not entirely clear--and he returned from the Deep with that power. So it strikes me that one of the problems with taking the other route, beating Oryx on his own terms, is that he's already proven he can kill some seriously tough customers. I'm not even sure what that would require. Time travel could pull it off; the Vex can do something that kind of resembles it, though if it were truly unlimited time travel they'd have already assimilated the whole universe. You could also maybe kill enough Hive to starve Oryx's worm and thus weaken him, but that would be the kind of slaughter that would result in a different problem, and that problem's name is Xivu Arath. The guardians pulled off their win by virtue of being difficult to Take (much later, we see Sloane get nearly Taken, even bearing some of their visual effects on her person, but that took years of psychological warfare from Xivu Arath and ultimately is stopped before completion), so that's a bare minimum to do the "reject the sword logic" strategy.

I personally imagine hive god trio having different ways of dealing with the chaos gods Xivu Arath would keep on fighting even when it shows it’s not working, creating a sort of Octarius war with Khorne and Xivu. I mean her two greatest losses came from Humanity refusing to fight and Eris mourne kicking her out of her own throne world and making her mortal again. Both just building up strength until the pressure gives Savathun would be a “friendly colleague” with Tzeencht, currying favor with knowledge while all the time trying to out smart the chaos god of change like she did with the witness it each time it just doesn’t happen. Like Savathuns playing checkers with Tzeencht and she turns the tables to chess but Tzeencht is already 3 steps a head and playing poker. Finally Oryx, he was able to create a Tithe system to keep his own worm fed and I believe through that he would realize the only way to truly destroy the chaos gods is by first killing what they feed off of. So in short Oryx would be indifferent to chaos but he might be able to “trade” and Cooperate with certain individuals, like how he emulated Trickery to resurrect Savathun. Bonus: I believe Nurgle would hate nockres and other hive aspects

Amazing video! One small correction, Oryx gained the power to take by the Winnower (the originator of the universal force of darkness) not the witness. This is evidenced by the way the Winnower speaks to both him (in the books of sorrow) and us (in the recent ship's lore) being the same but entirely different to the way the witness speaks to anyone.

You know, Pre-Season of the witch Xivû Arath would have been an absurdly dangerous menace in a universe as violent as the Warhammer ones (Fantasy, Age of Sigmar OR 40K)… Her ability to feed off of violence and resistance, irregardless of intent or loyalties, would see her powers swell like a black hole being force fed new material. Meanwhile it would NEVER occur to most of the factions to try and circumvent the way her empowerment works like Eris did, and even if the idea came up they’d have NO IDEA how to do so anyway. She would overwhelm most worlds in short order with her trillions strong hordes of hive, scores of war moons, and her use of her very throne world as an offensive weapon unto itself (That would be the 40K equivalent of Khorne iverting his Brass Citadel onto whatever worlds his forces are invading, which would allow him to personally manifest on them to do battle). The only factions that would be able to hold out against Xivu Arath for an extended period of time would be ones that can grow stronger as they fight like her… That leaves Orks, Tyranids and Khorne’s forces as the best bets in a straight fight, and at best that would just result in a positive feedback loop of a mutually empowering stalemate until either one side finally wins, or reality just up and collapses from the strain of both sides unnatural might eclipsing what the local universe would be able to support…. So basically The Octarius War, but engorged on Slaanesh’s personal stash of substances.

The Taken dont really have a will of their own, from my understanding. Its completely broken upon the will the one that wields them as a weapon. Control of the Taken, or certain pockets of them, has changed hands more than once since their introduction. And characters have stated multiple times that they do not or cannot act without a leader. They can only ever carry out the will of whoever is in control of them. They are not individuals anymore, just extensions of whoever is in control of them. Imagine a hive mind without each body being a part of that mind. Oryx was the mind, and the Taken were just chess pieces mindlessly following his will.

Chaos does have the potential to brute force their way into a Ascendant Realm like the Vex did (but that took up ALOT of time, resources and maths) and it only worked because Crota left the door open on his way out by mistake.

The Nine entering the 40K universe be like: Humanity: What are you? Tau: Are you good? Orks: Ya's are fighta's? Eldari: Do you have souls within you? Necrons: Are you gods? Nurgle: Can you die? Khorne: Do you bleed? Slanesh: Do you have desires? T'zeench: just according... the... plan(?) The Nine sends a small urn for each faction, the word "yes" is carved on it. Opening the urn revelas its content- Purple dust.

Next up on Destiny vs Warhammer 40k: the Fallen vs the Kroot

Now do The Witness. This one actually I think is on their level

There are way too many misconceptions or wrong things said in this about the Taken/ Oryxs power to take.The Vex were Taken so demons should be free game as the power doesnt in any way require a soul. It only requires a will of anything. Also Taken do not have free will. They’re not even the same creature that was taken. Theyre darkness monsters that take the form of whatever lifeform was taken so as long as its not a lightbearer quite literally anything is free game.

Slight D2 lore things: The Witness had nothing to do with teaching Oryx how to take, it was the Deep/Winnower (as recent lore confirms) and the act of taking doesn’t involve the soul of any being. It “hollows out” something so long as that something has a will of it’s own, soul or not, and then subjects it’s will to whoever took it, in this case Oryx. Also, Oryx himself is also linked to the concept of Exploration, like how how his starts are Cunning and War (his title as the Navigator) so the more he explores of the 40k universe the stronger he becomes, and anyone that would attempt to invade his Throne World must abide by the rules of the sword logic. When the Vex gained entry the only reason they were able to stay and fight against the Hive was because Quoria, a Vex Mind, managed to simulate Oryx and understand the Sword Logic, which let the Vex gain power through the rules of Oryx’s own throne world.

Now what of Witness taking on the Ruinous Powers of Chaos? I'd easily say the Witness would fucking hate what the Ruinous Powers are, since we've learned that the Witness was made to carve purpose into being.

Helldivers vs Mass Effect First Contact War