How To Save Constantinople in 1453

boots up EU4

The EU4 references in this video are more inevitable than the fall of Constantinople itself.

Honestly the Romans had a good run. I was very surprised when I first learned they existed all the way to 1453, considering Rome was founded over 2200 years prior.

Demetrios Palaiologos sort of reminds me of Andronikos I Komnenos, always causing trouble for his more competent family, jumping from one foreign court to another, but escapes responsibility multiple times because he "very sincerely apologized". Thankfully Demetrios never became the Emperor, or Constantinople would have fallen just like Rome in 476, "with a whimper".

The biggest issue is just how competent and determined Mehmed II was. I don't think he would have ever allowed Constantinople to remain unconquered.

He's only mentioned briefly, but I want to underscore just how much of a chad Giovanni Giustiniani was. This is a guy who spoke, at least well enough to command people in, like a half dozen different languages, possibly with mercs from as far away as Scotland. He was considered one of the foremost experts on defensive sieges, and it was he who was left in charge of keeping the rag-tag groups of foreigners and different interests in Constantinople stitched together and working well - which he did, training regular-ass people in the use of modern weaponry with what little time he had. Man genuinely pulled off the 'You must be swift as a coursing river!" thing but like, for real, since the detachment of people he led held out basically until the end. He'd learned from prior sieges and was adept at employing all kinds of incredibly effective unorthodox defences that weren't common at the time, and even mounted counter-attacks on the Ottomans. You could not have asked for a better man to be behind the walls, he'd have made everyone from Agrippa to Aetius, Belisarius to Maurice, proud. Some writers claim that he was a coward but a coward doesn't hold as fast and fight as hard as Giovanni did, I will die on that hill. Though if I do it won't be holding the position as effectively as Giovanni would've. People talk about Constantine's heroism, but everyone forgets Giovanni; just as, if not more, of a badass than Constantine was.

If we're starting at 1444, we all know what the Byzantines should have done. Start building galleys everywhere, delete the fort in Morea, attack Epyrus and vassalise them, attacked the Ottomans, Island trap their armies and win.

Constantine didn't take care of Demetrios because he didn't want the "Kinslayer" trait...

The biggest things that broke Rome: The 3rd Century Crisis Adrianople The Huns The Germans The Plague of Justinian The loss of Egypt (mostly happened because of the plague) The battle of Manzikirt (lead to the loss of Anatolia) The sack of Constantinople in the 4th Crusade Remove any one of these and Rome's chance increaes drastically, I think.

I don't think manzikert made the collapse inevitable, i believe the sack of constantinople by the crusaders was what made the collapse inevitable

furiously takes notes

I think the best thing about your analysis here is admitting that even if your strategy pays off, the Empire most likely merely survives, rather than revives. Which I think is being honest, no matter how fun it is to successfully retake your cores in EU4. By the time of Varna the sad fact is Constantinople depended on the favour of other powers for any sort of independence, and I think the Demetrios Appeasement plan would have died with Murad II, Mehmed was clearly spoiling for conquest. Even if Varna went off without a hitch, it isn't likely the Empire would directly recover much land. Each of the "ERE doomed after year X" dates are more about the Emperor losing more and more ability to dictate or negotiate with others, instead having to plead. I think by Varna the empire had little ability to pursue any kind of independent foreign agenda. Was that threshold crossed in 1204? 1341? Was an opportunity to reclaim it in 1402 missed? Who knows? And it's unlikely any emperor would be able to over-leverage their resources to somehow build an army that can deter or even beat the Ottomans in open battle, unlike in EU4.

Listened to this video while playing EU4 as Aragon, trying to vassalize Byz. Of course things could always be better, but it was very very difficult to find a better way.

For anyone interested in the matter, Finnish writer Mika Waltari wrote a book called "Johannes Angelos". It is a historical novel telling the fictional story of the titular Johannes, who participates in the defense of Constantinople. Actual historical characters like Giovanni Giustiniani are featured in it too. I recommend it, really makes you wanna die at the walls of such a holy city

The thing about the medieval ERE was that it was given plenty of chances to recover but time and time again a variety of circumstances caused Byzantium to dig its own grave further. Manzikert ensured that the Empire would no longer be able to retake the Levant and Egypt (at least without the help of the West) Myriokephalon effectively stopped the reconquests of the Komnenid Dynasty, and of course the sack by the Fourth Crusade undid their progress altogether. However, when Constantinople was retaken in 1261, the Byzantines still had half of Greece and the western third of Anatolia, and could theoretically be able to restore at least the pre-Fourth Crusade borders. It was the two civil wars of the Palaiologian Dynasty that finally broke Byzantium's back altogether leading us to this situation in 1444

I actually like how you structured your alternative history scenario. Most alternative history on youtube is very surface level cause they try to cover events over several decades and make the scope too big so we can't really cover over maybe 1/2 factors, here we got an essentially in-depth analysis.

Thanks for the tips i will make sure to implement it in the next timeline i change. I tried to save constantinople 54 times(And only 9 timelines worked and only 1 of the timeline's rome managed to be restored, the other 8 perished in the 16th-20th centuries or continued as small and irrelevant)

Thank you so much for mentioning Mani!!! The Toparchy of Maina stood alone, and all that separated it from the Ottoman Empire in 1461 AD was a strip of borderlands in its borders with Messenia and Laconia, given by Krokodeilos Kladas to Venice so that the Venetians would defend Mani. By that time, many fleeing elements of administrators, militarymen and politicians had fled there from New Rome and Mystras/Patras, and Toparchy of Mani was reorganized based on the local administration as the Maniot Republic, based on a Lacedaemonian/Laconian/Maniot Senate in Oitylo. In 1481 AD the Ottoman Turks would invade and the Venetians would just give these borderlands to the Turks, which began a 13 year long Maniot-Turkish War, in which the lowlands of Northern Mani and Middle Mani was captured, but the highlands of Northern Mani and Southern Mani were still free, from which the Maniots managed to eventually push out the Turks, and even wage a counter attack in 1493 AD in Southern Laconia, until their attempt to free Monemvasia was halted and Krokodeilos Kladas was captured and impaled by the Turks. Yet still, even in the 1520s AD we do hear of Kladiotes leading the Maniots and wreaking havoc in Southern Laconia, while the Maniot Republic being still free, sovereign and independent, exactly as it was for the next 3 centuries until it liberated half the Morea in 1821 AD and formed the First Hellenic Republic!!!

Rome was doomed to fall when Romulus killed Remus because it put the act of fratricide on a mythical pedestal, therefore making betrayal a more accepted and righteous act in the mind of the potential betrayer. This contributes to the internal strife and civil wars that severely weakened Rome. There 😏😏😏

Manzikert definitely didn’t help. But the Roman Empire had recovered from disastrous battles before. Good grief if they could survive Canne with Hannibal at the walls! But what has to be looked at that wasn't present in other defeats was gunpowder! Technology had caught up to the days of staying behind great walled defensive structures.